Discussing the themes of the book

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skylarburris	Discussing the themes of the book	Lead	[-]
Posts: 60 (10/11/05 16:28:25) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Tags : None This thread is not so much for critiquing how the book is written, but for discussing the themes raised by the book itself. Some questions I'd love to hear input on: (1) Should a Christian not write horror stories? If not, why not? (2) Does Christianity really mean the end to horror here on earth? (3) What is the difference between horror and human suffering?
JaniceLaQuiere	Is Christianity the end of Horror	#1	[-]
Posts: 143 (10/11/05 19:35:27) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	My personal opinion is, on a personal level "yes". As a Christian I believe that God is sovereign, He is in charge of everything. I am promised that, as a Christian, all things will work together for my good. (My "good" as God perceives...sometimes it's not so obvious to me, but I trust him that it's always better <g>.) But, if I'm trusting God, then it doesn't how matter bad it gets, I know that I'm in His hand. His desires will be carried out. The stronger my belief and faith is...the less will be my perceived horror at life.
skylarburris	Re: Is Christianity the end of Horror	#2	[-]
Posts: 60 (10/12/05 07:08:49) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	I suppose it is best summed up in Christ's: "In this world you SHALL have tribulation, BUT be of good cheer, for I have overcome the world." My two cents: I do think there is horror in this world. I keep thinking of Ivan's question in the Brother's Karamazov, about a young girl beaten by her parents and locked in a privy, beating on her chest and crying out to "dear kind God" all night until the morning. She cries out to God, but still she's beaten and still she's in that privy and still she's suffering suffering. And that kind of thing happens in the real world. It's hard for me to see things like that, to know they exist, and to say there is no horror in this world. To me, to say there is no horror in this world would be to minimize evil and try to brush it aside--for me, it would be almost pantheistic. The thing is, God has conquered this world, with all of its horor and suffering. But in the meantime, until the second coming or we die, we still live in THIS world. ANd we can find comfort in Christ to help us overcome our fears and our pain, but I don't think that means horror is at an end. It just means we are able to endure it better.
jmarkbertrand	Re: Is Christianity the end of Horror	#3	[-]
Posts: 971 (10/12/05 07:29:00) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	These are great questions, Skylar. I'm going to address some of this (at least obliquely) in tomorrow's installment of "The End of Horror," but let me take a crack at them head-on here: *Quote:* (1) Should a Christian not write horror stories? If not, why not? A Christian should write horror, if that's his calling. There are few genres that can't be redeemed by a Christian writer, and this is one that seems to offer a lot of possibilities. I can't elaborate on them as well as some of our resident experts on the genre, but when you consider how much chatter The Exorcism of Emily Rose has generated, you can see the genre's potential. Also, I don't think Dave's book is a swipe at the horror genre. Ian Merchant's art has some specific problems he has to confront, but they aren't unique to his genre. I think his crisis would have come on more quickly if he'd been writing existential fiction after the fashion of Camus. Horror is the metaphor here -- its reality and the illusion that Ian dabbles in. *Quote:* (2) Does Christianity really mean the end to horror here on earth? Ian gives a pretty plausible "yes" to this question, and his answer is theologically sound. We speak of God's kingdom as being "already and not yet" -- it is established and Christ reigns, but that reign is being extended and is not yet what it will be in the eschaton. *Quote:* (3) What is the difference between horror and human suffering? Human suffering, generically speaking, is thought of as a by-product of the fall (or, by unbelievers, an indifferent aspect of nature). When you get sick, you don't think of illness as an evil being perpetrated against you. Horror -- i.e., the genre -- seems to me to be about specific evil perpetrated against people, either natural or supernatural. In a sense, the genre personifies the things we would ordinarily relate to in the abstract. (Similar to the way that ancients might have personified the force of nature as a river god or some folks today personify the result of bad financial decisions as a demon of debt.) The personification makes the evil something that can be addressed. It gives it form. Mark www.jmarkbertrand.com Required Reading: "Holy Sonnet" - FiF Contest Entry "Midafternoon Apocalypse" at The New Pantagruel "The Inside Job" at Hardluck Stories "The Beautiful Girl" at InFuze Magazine
ctmikesell	Re: Is Christianity the end of Horror	#4	[-]
Posts: 851 (10/12/05 08:21:38) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	*Quote:* (1) Should a Christian not write horror stories? If not, why not? I think the genre should be open to Christian authors (not to reopen the "authors who are Christians" debate). The best horror is psychological and sociological in nature: what does terror do to a person, his or her community? Violence and gore are secondary. The vampire/zombie/Frankenstein's monster is a stand-in for something else (though not always, sometimes a vampire is just a vampire). The value (a value) in/with horror is the ability to vicariously survive the horrific events (or at least to learn what not to do in case the story has no survivors). The problem that confronts Ian is where does he go from Hunter? He's explored the dark psyche as much as he can; his storytelling has progressed to the point where he's painted himself into a corner (or the brink of an abyss--the cliche is unimportant, the point is he has nowhere to go). So he comes up with a gimmicky story, as much fantasy as it is horror: the transparent man, the reverse mind-reader. A good hook and I expect he'll write it some day, but God intervened and said "write this book, tell this story first." *Quote:* (2) Does Christianity really mean the end to horror here on earth? Yes and no. To the degree that it gives a larger perspective on life or offers comfort to fears and worries: yes, horror has no hold on the Christian (which is not to say a Christian is never scared or worried). To the extent that the Christian is immune from violence via stalker or zombie: no. To the extent that the Christian is unmoved by someone else being stalked or zombie-attacked because "all things work for good" or "Christ has overcome" or "there is a balm in Gilead": I think that speaks to the callowness of some who wrap themselves in the name of Christ, but like the metaphoric white-washed grave are dead inside. Christians should work to end horror here on earth, not presume that the horror has been destroyed already. *Quote:* (3) What is the difference between horror and human suffering? I think the difference is which side of the conjunction you're on. If I'm in the World Trade Center when the planes hit, it's horror. If I'm in New Orleans when the levees break, it's horror. If I'm in Dafur, Columbine, Jonestown, Wounded Knee, it's horror. If I'm not, it's human suffering. If I'm being stalked (or my wife or kid), it's horror. If it's happening to you and yours, it's human suffering. So sorry; I'll write a check. --der Fieldenmarshal
TL Hines	Re: Is Christianity the end of Horror	#5	[-]
Posts: 112 (10/12/05 09:05:58) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Being a writer who dabbles in horror themes, this is a question that haunts me every day--in some ways. For me, though, the struggle isn't really with the material; it's with the reactions I know will come. I'm sure more than a few decent folks will buy my book, read it, and frankly, be shocked. Some of them in my church family. Some of them who know me quite well. Some may even ask, "How could you write such a creepy book?" And my answer is: "Because I WANTED to write a creepy book." It's what fuels my imagination, and that's the only answer I can truthfully give. Which brings us to the question: how can someone who calls himself a Christian write that kind of stuff? Once again, I say: it's what fuels my imagination, and that's the only answer I can truthfully give. I didn't write specifically for the CBA market (or specifically for the ABA market, for that matter); I just wrote--and write--what seems interesting to me. Because I'm a Christian, my worldview and perspective naturally make their way into my stories, and they're ultimately, I hope, about faith and redemption. Unlike dFM, I do think there's more of a distinction between human suffering and horror. While suffering is always horrific, it doesn't automatically qualify a story as horror. Think of "Angela's Ashes" or "Schindler's List." I don't think many folks would categorize these as horror tales, even though they're filled with plenty of human suffering. Horror aims to push our inner buttons with external fingers, if that makes sense. It makes us confront our secret internal fears such as isolation or loss of control. Finally, I think Christianity does mean the end of horror on earth--ultimately. One day all will be restored, and the horrific will cease; in the meantime, however, there's plenty of it to go around. ----------------- TL Hines www.tlhines.com
ctmikesell	Re: Is Christianity the end of Horror	#6	[-]
Posts: 851 (10/12/05 09:26:31) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	*Quote:* I don't think many folks would categorize these as horror tales, even though they're filled with plenty of human suffering. Horror aims to push our inner buttons with external fingers, if that makes sense. It makes us confront our secret internal fears such as isolation or loss of control. As a genre, I totally agree. Not every tale of human suffering qualifies as horror, just as every love story doesn't qualify as romance. It depends on the methods and approach of the author. I haven't read Angela's Ashes, but I can definitely see horrorstory possibilities in Schindler's List. Depending on where you choose to focus, what story elements and techniques you bring into play ... why even The Shining can be a heartwarming tale of family togetherness. --der Fieldenmarshal
lindainkansas	Re: Another theme -- writer in community	#7	[-]
Posts: 372 (10/12/05 12:16:22) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	One of the things I noticed as I read Ezekiel's Shadow was how Ian gradually became involved in the lives of other people. I sensed that he had been rather isolated for a long time -- both as a person and as a writer. Writing is a solitary endeavor and writers (and other artists) tend to be introverts (so do editors -- thus one reason newsrooms are so disfunctional, but I digress). But the paradox is, and I think Ian must realize this though I don't recall it ever being laid out clearly in the story, that writing is also a very public act. You want someone to read it, so there's one aspect of the idea. But I also believe that good writing is often something of a group effort. You write something, let someone else read it, they tell you what works or not, you make some changes -- the end result is still yours, but it's had nurturing from others, too. As Ian started to get to know Pete and the others, as he became better acquainted with the police detective and his family, his outlook on life was enlarged. And I was really glad when he started to go to church. The lone ranger Christian is just so alien to my mindset (remember, I'm a preacher's kid). We need other Christians along side us as we walk through this world -- Ian needed other Christians, he just didn't know it yet. He began to grow as a Christian, he became less self-centered and more concerned about the struggles of others around him. Perhaps this theme jumped out at me more because I've only recently begun to find a larger community of writers, but it recurs throughout the book. Did anyone else notice this? Linda lindaruthspot.blogspot.com
ZanesMilkMachine	Re: Another theme -- writer in community	#8	[-]
Posts: 494 (10/12/05 21:27:35) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	(1) Should a Christian not write horror stories? If not, why not? If the answer is no, I'm in trouble. If the answer is yes, I'm in trouble. Googling "Christian horror" is what lead me to this board. In my past life, y'know...before Christ, I did more than just "dabble" in horror. I've read Stephen King for as long as I can remember. I have firsthand knowledge and experience with ESP projects, astral projecting, fortune tellers, ouija boards, horror movies, ghosts, spirits, apparitions, and demons. Not to mention the more tangible things like alcoholism, abuse, anger, drug addiction, pain, and sexual promiscuity. Even after accepting Christ, I fell away and though I didn't mess with the mentioned horrors, I still read Stephen King and Anne Rice. When God's hand brought me back to his side and He let me know that He wanted me to write, I fought it. We all know who wins a round of tug-of-war with God, don't we? My two favorite authors are Stephen King and Charles Swindoll. So far, my teeny little brain can't reconcile the two. Reading horror (back then) was, for me, refreshing. Huh? Did she say refreshing? Yep. It's true. Their demons were always bigger than mine. And that was refreshing. Now, I still read Stephen King. And I read the Bible daily. And I have grown in Christ like I'd never have imagined. And now, I tremble before my Lord and Savior. And I look back and I see very clearly Satan's hands wrapped all around me, engulfing me. He's laughing and his demons are chanting. They've got a stronghold on me and they keep feeding me. I'm blindfolded, so I don't know where they're taking me. They're not hurting me, so I don't know they're evil. They're feeding me and answering questions no one else has ever answered and they're making me feel wanted and appreciated. They're making me feel important and special. Then someone interceded on my behalf. Someone prayed for me. God reached over and snatched me from the enemy and said, "This one's mine." Then I learned from God's word that demons ARE real. I was terrified to look back and see those demons with their arms all around me. I shook in fear and disbelief as I watched myself enjoying them and their company. In the company of demons. I bow down at the feet of the great I AM in humility. I still wonder why it is that He chose me? Who am I? Should Christians write horror? I don't know. That's where I leave it. I don't know if I WANT to know. I don't know if I'm ready to know. I'm just not sure. This is where I leave it every time. God called me to write. I will obey. Whatever He chooses to have me write, so be it. Because it is not about me, or the editor, or the publisher, or the reader, or the money, or the genre, or the recognition. It is not even about getting published. It is about the Almighty and His will and His purpose and His plan. (2) Does Christianity really mean the end to horror here on earth? If anything, Christianity is a flashing neon sign, smack-dab in the middle of my forehead that says: "Attention all demonic forces, powers, and principalities...THIS is your target. Do no abort mission until target is destroyed." (3) What is the difference between horror and human suffering? Horror is caged in the darkest pits of the soul and fed by fear. Human suffering is what happens when horror is unleashed. ************* Blog: Just a Minute
RebMel	Re: Another theme -- writer in community	#9	[-]
Posts: 206 (10/13/05 04:32:30) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Michelle, What an excellent post! I love your stark and honest vision of your past. Such a great analogy to being blind before being saved, and then having your vision given you, and the clarity that vision gives as you look over where you have been. And such a powerful understanding of how those encircled by demons do not even realize the danger they are in, but mistakenly think of them as friends. Only after you have that vision can you realize the food they were feeding you was poison. In Christ, Rebecca

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